The Mostly Real Estate Podcast, with Declan Spring

Episode #49 - The Clear Cooperation Policy: NAR's Latest Rule Changes

• Declan Spring

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In this episode, we break down the heated debate over the National Association of Realtors’ (NAR) Clear Cooperation Policy (CCP) and its latest update. The policy, which requires Realtors to list publicly marketed properties on the MLS within one business day, has sparked division within the industry. We explore both sides of the argument, from claims of increased transparency and fairness to concerns about restricted competition and broker autonomy.

Plus, we dive into NAR’s latest policy shift—the introduction of “Delayed Marketing Exempt Listings”—and what it means for agents, sellers, and the future of MLS systems.

Key Topics Discussed:

  • The Origins of CCP – Why NAR introduced the policy in 2020 and its impact on pocket listings.
  • The Debate Intensifies – Industry leaders take sides, with Compass CEO Robert Reffkin leading opposition efforts.
  • Legal & Regulatory Concerns – How the Department of Justice’s stance shaped the policy’s future.
  • NAR’s New Update – What the “Multiple Listing Options for Sellers” policy changes and how it affects MLSs.
  • What’s Next? – The ongoing power struggle between traditional brokerages, tech platforms, and the evolving real estate landscape.

Tune in as we break it all down and discuss what this means for the future of real estate professionals!

Declan Spring:

This is Declan Spring. Welcome to the Mostly Real Estate Podcast. Today's podcast is two things. First and foremost, it's a conversation about the National Association of Realtors' March 25th announcement on changes to their somewhat contentious clear cooperation policy that was originally adopted in 2020. And secondly, it's something of a meditation on the power of AI and the need for everybody to not delay in adapting, leveraging or, at the very least, just having fun with it. The conversation you're about to listen to is fully AI generated. The hosts well, they don't actually exist. Here's how the conversation manifested I gathered and uploaded source material to Google LM, from Inman, from NAR's website and also from realtor conversations on my own Facebook page. The result's pretty good. As ever, you can reach me at 415-446-8591 with thoughts, comments, suggestions for the show, and I'd be particularly interested to hear back from you about how you're using AI in your real estate business. And now I bring you a couple of nameless AI hosts chit-chatting about NAR's clear cooperation policy announcement from earlier this week. Enjoy.

AI Bob:

Because, at the end of the day, it's about you know, the consumer having the best possible experience and feeling like the market is fair and transparent.

AI Sue:

Exactly, and you know this whole debate about listing transparency like how much information is out there, how much control the agents have it's a really a hot topic right now.

AI Bob:

It really is. I mean ever since NAR, you know, put out that clear cooperation policy back in 2020.

AI Sue:

Yeah, the CCP.

AI Bob:

Yeah, the CCP it's been, you know, a source of a lot of discussion and debate and you know, now, with these new delayed marketing exempt listings coming, in Right, right, like a whole new chapter in the story.

AI Sue:

Yeah, yeah. So for those who you know maybe haven't been following every twist and turn, let's just like quickly recap what the CCP is all about.

AI Bob:

Sure. So essentially, the clear cooperation policy says that if you are a realtor and you're publicly marketing a property, you have one business day to get that listing up on the MLS.

AI Sue:

Okay, so like no more you know, kind of keeping it hush hush and just showing it to your inner circle.

AI Bob:

Right, exactly. Yeah, it's about you know, making sure that all the listings are out there in the open, accessible to everyone.

AI Sue:

Yeah, so everyone's got a fair shot.

AI Bob:

Yeah, exactly, level playing field.

AI Sue:

Yeah.

AI Bob:

That's the idea anyway.

AI Sue:

In theory, yeah, and NAR, you know, they've always maintained that the whole point of this is to strengthen the MLS, you know, make it that central hub of information.

AI Bob:

Right Benefit consumers ultimately.

AI Sue:

Right. Make sure all buyers you know working with any agent have access to all the listings.

AI Bob:

Yeah, Prevent those. You know, those dreaded pocket listings.

AI Sue:

Right, which, you know, some people would argue could really distort the market.

AI Bob:

Absolutely. And if you've got a whole bunch of properties that are only being shown to a select few, that's not exactly a level playing field.

AI Sue:

Right. It kind of undermines the whole purpose of having an MLS in the first place.

AI Bob:

Exactly so. The CCP, you know it was meant to address that and create a more, you know, pro-consumer, pro-competitive environment.

AI Sue:

Right. So it all sounds good in theory right, but we know that, like anything in the real estate world, it's never that simple.

AI Bob:

Oh never, it's always more nuanced than that.

AI Sue:

Right and there was a lot of pushback right from the get-go, when the CCP was first announced.

AI Bob:

Oh, absolutely. There were some agents and brokers who were not happy about it at all.

AI Sue:

Yeah, and I get it, you know, to some extent, because it's like you're taking away some of that control that you know agents and brokers have traditionally had over how they market a property.

AI Bob:

Right. I mean they felt like it was kind of tying their hands a bit.

AI Sue:

Right, and so that's really, you know, the core of the debate here, right? This tension between market transparency and what we could call, you know, broker controlled exclusivity.

AI Bob:

Yeah, that's it in a nutshell, right there.

AI Sue:

So let's dive into that a bit, shall we Like? Let's unpack those arguments both for and against this big push for greater listing transparency.

AI Bob:

Let's do it.

AI Sue:

Okay. So on the side of you know full transparency, the clear cooperation policy folks. Their big argument is, you know, fairness, plain and simple, right. Everyone should have access to the same information at the same time. Exactly no one's getting a leg up. You know no secret deals going on behind closed doors.

AI Bob:

Right, and the thinking is that this ultimately benefits consumers because you're creating a more competitive market.

AI Sue:

Right More buyers. You know potentially bidding on a property, that means higher prices for sellers.

AI Bob:

And more choices for buyers.

AI Sue:

Right, exactly. And you know you can also argue that it makes the whole process more efficient because you're not wasting time. You know chasing down these, you know off market listings that may or may not even exist.

AI Bob:

Yeah, I mean, imagine being a buyer and you know you're trying to find a house and you're constantly hearing about these. You know amazing properties that you can't even see.

AI Sue:

Right, it's like super frustrating.

AI Bob:

Absolutely, and that's not a good experience for anyone involved.

AI Sue:

And you know there's also that whole argument about exclusive ecosystems, which you know it's a real concern.

AI Bob:

Yeah, it's this idea that you know, if you allow too many private listings, you could end up with these sort of walled gardens.

AI Sue:

Right Right, where only certain agents and their clients have access to certain properties.

AI Bob:

And, you know, you could even argue that it kind of goes against the whole spirit of the MLS, which is supposed to be this, you know, cooperative platform where everyone shares information.

AI Sue:

Right. It's supposed to be about, you know, collaboration, not competition, in a sense.

AI Bob:

Exactly, and so the CCP. You know it was seen by some as a way to kind of reinforce that and prevent the market from becoming too fragmented.

AI Sue:

Yeah, and then you know, on top of all that there were also those really important arguments being made about consumer protection and fair housing.

AI Bob:

Right, Because if you're not careful, you know these private listings could lead to situations where some buyers are getting preferential treatment.

AI Sue:

Right, and that's, you know, a big no-no, obviously.

AI Bob:

And you know, it could even be unintentional right, like maybe an agent isn't even aware that they're, you know, subtly steering buyers towards certain properties. But it can happen.

AI Sue:

Right, it's about, you know, unconscious bias and all that.

AI Bob:

Exactly, and so the CCP. You know it was seen by some as a way to kind of mitigate that risk and make sure that everyone is being treated fairly.

AI Sue:

Right. And then there's the whole issue of, you know, sellers potentially getting shortchanged if their property isn't exposed to the widest possible audience.

AI Bob:

Right, because if you're only showing it to a handful of people, you might not be getting the best possible price.

AI Sue:

Right, Exactly, and you know that's not doing the seller any favors.

AI Bob:

So you know, from a consumer protection standpoint, the CCP had some pretty strong arguments in its favor.

AI Sue:

Now I know there was some pushback on that whole days on market thing. You know the idea that CCP helps prevent listings from going stale.

AI Bob:

Oh yeah, that was a big one. No-transcript. Well, their point was basically that days on market doesn't really matter if the property is priced correctly.

AI Sue:

OK, so if it's priced right, it'll sell, regardless of how long it's been on the market.

AI Bob:

Exactly, and you know they also pointed out that even before this whole delayed marketing thing came along, there were already ways to kind of test the waters without officially putting a property on the MLS.

AI Sue:

Right Like coming soon listings and stuff.

AI Bob:

Exactly, and those don't count towards days on market.

AI Sue:

OK, so it's not like the CCP was the only way to achieve that.

AI Bob:

Right. They felt like there were already tools in place to address that concern.

AI Sue:

OK, so that's the pro-transparency side of the argument. But, like we said, there were some pretty persuasive points being made on the other side too.

AI Bob:

Oh, absolutely, there are definitely some valid concerns about made on the other side too. Oh, absolutely, there are definitely some valid concerns about taking away too much control from agents and sellers.

AI Sue:

Right. And so one of the main arguments against, you know, this strict MLS mandate was that it it kind of took away flexibility from sellers.

AI Bob:

Yeah, because sometimes you know a seller might have a very good reason for wanting to keep things quiet initially.

AI Sue:

Right, like maybe they're you know a celebrity or something and they don't want a bunch of looky-loos coming through their house.

AI Bob:

Or maybe they're just, you know, they're not quite ready for the full-blown marketing blitz.

AI Sue:

Right, they just want to kind of dip their toe in the water.

AI Bob:

Exactly, and you know they also argued that it could actually hurt sellers in some cases, because if a property sits on the MLS for too long it can start to look, you know, stale right like oh, what's wrong with that house?

AI Sue:

why hasn't it sold?

AI Bob:

exactly, and that, can you know, potentially lead to lower offers yeah.

AI Sue:

So they felt like having the option to do some private marketing first could actually help sellers in the long run and you know there's also the argument that the CCP was kind of restricting the independence of brokerages. Right, like telling them how they have to run their business.

AI Bob:

Exactly, and you know brokerages they pride themselves on. You know being able to tailor their services to the specific needs of their clients.

AI Sue:

Right, and so some felt like the CCP was kind of a one size fits all approach that didn't really take those individual needs into account.

AI Bob:

Yeah, and you know there was also some concern about you know the legal ramifications of all this.

AI Sue:

Right, Because with all these lawsuits flying around about commissions and stuff, you know it was only a matter of time before someone started looking at the CCP.

AI Bob:

Exactly, and you know there was a lot of speculation about you know whether the CCP would hold up in court.

AI Sue:

Right, and that uncertainty, you know, definitely added fuel to the fire of the debate.

AI Bob:

And you know. Then there's the whole issue of those big online platforms like Zillow and Redfin.

AI Sue:

Oh yeah, those guys.

AI Bob:

Yeah, Some people felt like you know, by forcing all listings onto the MLS and then having that data immediately fed to those platforms, it was kind of giving them too much power.

AI Sue:

Right, because those platforms, they have a lot of influence over how buyers perceive properties.

AI Bob:

Absolutely. They're the first place that most people go to when they're starting their home search.

AI Sue:

Right, and so the concern was that, you know, a property could get kind of pigeonholed based on its initial presentation on those sites.

AI Bob:

Yeah, like people might make snap judgments based on a few photos and a brief description.

AI Sue:

Right. And so some felt, like you know, having that period of more controlled private marketing would allow for a more, you know, nuanced and strategic rollout.

AI Bob:

And you know, it's not just about Zillow and Redfin, right, there's also the issue of, you know, data privacy and all that.

AI Sue:

Oh yeah, Right Like who has access to all this information and what are they doing with?

AI Bob:

it Exactly so. It's a really complex issue with a lot of different angles to consider.

AI Sue:

And you know, it's interesting to see how some of the biggest names in the real estate industry weighed in on all of this.

AI Bob:

Oh yeah, it was like a who's who of real estate CEOs, right.

AI Sue:

So you had Robert Refkin from Compass, who was very vocally opposed to the CCP.

AI Bob:

Yeah, he called it an MLS monopoly, which is a pretty strong statement, right.

AI Sue:

And his point was that it was taking away control from brokerages and essentially forcing them to hand over their content to the MLS.

AI Bob:

Yeah, and he was really concerned about the implications of that for competition in the industry.

AI Sue:

Right, and then you had the Department of Justice kind of swirling around in the background.

AI Bob:

Oh yeah, that was a whole other saga.

AI Sue:

Right, because initially it seemed like they were, you know, pretty skeptical of the CCP.

AI Bob:

Yeah, there were reports that they were, you know, looking into whether it was anti-competitive.

AI Sue:

Right. But then they kind of backtracked and said that they didn't actually see the policy itself as being a problem. Yeah, being a problem?

AI Bob:

Yeah, it was a bit of a confusing situation.

AI Sue:

Right, but it did kind of give NAR some cover to keep the policy in place.

AI Bob:

Yeah, because if the DOJ had come out strongly against it, that would have been a big blow.

AI Sue:

Right. And then on the flip side, you had all these other CEOs who were very much in favor of keeping the CCP.

AI Bob:

Yeah, like Leo Parasia from eXp Realty.

AI Sue:

Right and Glenn Kelman from Redfin.

AI Bob:

Yeah, and James Wiggins from Next Home.

AI Sue:

Right, and their argument was basically that the CCP was good for consumers because it promoted transparency and fairness.

AI Bob:

Yeah, they were also worried that if you weaken the policy it would lead to a more fragmented market.

AI Sue:

Right, like we were talking about earlier, with those exclusive ecosystems.

AI Bob:

Exactly, and they pointed to examples from other countries where the MLS isn't as strong.

AI Sue:

Yeah Right, and they argued that that's not a good thing for consumers.

AI Bob:

And as the debate was heating up, you had even more CEOs jumping into the fray.

AI Sue:

Right, like Pam Liebman from Corcoran.

AI Bob:

Yeah, and Candy Lane from Coldwell Banker.

AI Sue:

Right and Bess Friedman from Brown Harris Stevens.

AI Bob:

Yeah, it was clear that this was an issue that was really important to the industry.

AI Sue:

Right, and you know, one company that was particularly vocal in their support of the CCP was Anywhere Real Estate, yeah.

AI Bob:

They were really adamant about keeping the policy in place.

AI Sue:

Right, and their main concern was that if you change the CCP, it would lead to a decrease in the number of properties that are publicly listed.

AI Bob:

Right and an increase in off-market inventory.

AI Sue:

Which would be bad for everyone.

AI Bob:

Yeah, because it would make it harder for buyers to find properties and it would make it harder for sellers to get the best possible price.

AI Sue:

Right. So after all this back and forth, you know, NAR finally made a decision.

AI Bob:

The suspense was killing us.

AI Sue:

Right, and they decided to keep the CCP, but with a twist.

AI Bob:

Enter delayed marketing exempt listings.

AI Sue:

Yeah, so let's break that down for our listeners. You know what does this actually mean for agents and brokers out there in the real world.

AI Bob:

OK, so the one business day rule is still in effect.

AI Sue:

OK, so that's not changing.

AI Bob:

No, but what this new category does is it creates a way for agents to delay the public marketing of a property without violating the CCP.

AI Sue:

OK, so it's like a grace period.

AI Bob:

Yeah, exactly, and it gives agents a little bit more flexibility in how they market a property.

AI Sue:

But it's important to note that this doesn't change the fundamental requirement to submit the listing to the MLS within one business day of public marketing.

AI Bob:

Right, exactly, it's just that the definition of public marketing has been tweaked a bit.

AI Sue:

Okay, so what exactly counts as public marketing now?

AI Bob:

So NAR has clarified that one-to-one communication between brokers about a listing that's coming soon does not trigger the CCP. Okay, so if you're just talking to another agent about a property that's not considered public marketing, Right, but if you start sending out mass emails or making announcements at big industry events, then that would trigger the one business day rule. Okay, so it's really trigger the one business day rule.

AI Sue:

Okay, so it's really about the scope of the communication. Exactly, and it sounds like NAR is leaving a lot of the details up to the individual MLSs.

AI Bob:

Yeah, they're not setting a national standard for how long this delayed marketing period can be.

AI Sue:

So it could be different from one market to the next.

AI Bob:

Right, and that's something that agents need to be aware of.

AI Sue:

Yeah, because if you're working in multiple MLSs, you need to know the rules in each one.

AI Bob:

Absolutely.

AI Sue:

And there's also this new requirement for assigned disclosure from sellers.

AI Bob:

Right. So if a seller chooses to use this delayed marketing option, they have to sign a document acknowledging that they're waiving certain benefits.

AI Sue:

Like what kind of benefits?

AI Bob:

Well, mainly the benefit of having their property immediately syndicated to all those big real estate websites.

AI Sue:

Right Like Zillow and Realtorcom. Exactly, and so this disclosure is just to make sure that the seller understands what they're giving up. Ok, so it's about transparency and informed consent.

AI Bob:

Exactly.

AI Sue:

And another thing that NAR is leaving up to the MLSs is whether those delayed marketing days will count towards the total days on market.

AI Bob:

Yeah, that's another big one.

AI Sue:

Because that could affect how buyers perceive a property.

AI Bob:

Absolutely. I mean, if a property has been sitting in this delayed marketing status for two weeks and then it finally hits the MLS, it could look like it's been on the market for two weeks longer than it actually has.

AI Sue:

Right, and that could potentially lead to lower offers.

AI Bob:

So it's something that sellers need to be aware of.

AI Sue:

But the good news is that, even though these delayed marketing listings won't be publicly visible, they will still be accessible to other agents through the MLS.

AI Bob:

Right, so it's not like they're completely hidden.

AI Sue:

Right. Other agents will still be able to see them and inform their clients.

AI Bob:

Exactly so. It's not a complete black box.

AI Sue:

Okay, so it seems like NA has tried to strike a balance here between transparency and flexibility.

AI Bob:

Yeah, they've tried to give agents and sellers a little bit more control without completely undermining the CCP.

AI Sue:

Right, and it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out in practice.

AI Bob:

Yeah, because there's still a lot of questions about how this is all going to work.

AI Sue:

Right Like how are the different MLSs going to implement these new rules?

AI Bob:

Exactly, and how will it affect competition between agents?

AI Sue:

And what will the impact be on consumers?

AI Bob:

Yeah, those are all big questions.

AI Sue:

And, you know, it's something that we'll definitely be keeping an eye on. Absolutely, because this is an evolving situation, right, and we'll probably need to revisit this topic in a future deep dive, yeah, once we have more information about how it's all shaking out Right. So for all of you real estate professionals listening you know, pay attention to what your local MLS is doing.

AI Bob:

Yeah, because the rules could be different in your market.

AI Sue:

And for any consumers who are tuning in, you know, talk to your agent about these new options.

AI Bob:

Yeah, make sure you understand how your property is going to be marketed.

AI Sue:

This is definitely a topic that's worth staying informed about.

AI Bob:

Absolutely, because it could have a big impact on your buying or selling experience.

AI Sue:

Well, thanks for diving deep with us today.

AI Bob:

Always a pleasure.

AI Sue:

And we'll catch you next time.

AI Bob:

See you then.

Declan Spring:

This episode was edited by me, with original music by Chuck Lindo and graphics by Lisa Mazur. The podcast is brought to you by the Home Factor. Realtors thehomefactorcom Catch up on the latest news from the East Bay real estate market in their weekly blog, published every Saturday at thehomefactorcom. If you'd like to reach out to me with suggestions for the show, that kind of thing, please text me at 415-446-8591. It's that simple, just a text. 415-446-8591. Bye.