The Mostly Real Estate Podcast, with Declan Spring
Real estate market updates, and conversations of substance with people I admire, mostly in the field of residential real estate in the San Francisco East Bay Area. This show is both industry facing, and consumer facing, which makes it somewhat unique.
Listeners can access content about the state of the East Bay real estate market. The podcast also features local top-producing agents, brokers, rising stars, or agents who have simply niched down and can share their strategies.
Outside of real estate there are many conversations with local business owners, historians, politicians, and non-profits, people whom I believe provide value to the local community and enrich my experience of living here.
I've been a California licensed real estate agent since 2003 selling real estate mostly in the Inner East Bay cities and districts of Berkeley, Oakland, Richmond, Albany, El Cerrito, and Kensington.
CA DRE#01398898
The Mostly Real Estate Podcast, with Declan Spring
Mastering Digital Real Estate: From Barber to TikTok Sensation - #64 Roland Osage
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What happens when you combine authentic passion for unique homes with consistent content creation? Roland Osage's journey from barber to real estate powerhouse with over 220,000 TikTok followers provides a masterclass in building a thriving business through social media.
Roland's path to real estate success began unexpectedly when he purchased his first home at just 19 years old. After witnessing significant appreciation without making improvements, his curiosity was piqued. While working as a barber in San Francisco, he began exploring property flipping, eventually obtaining his license in 2018 to better understand the terminology and processes. Fast forward to 2021, and a simple decision to create walkthrough-style property tours on TikTok would transform his business forever.
What makes Roland's approach unique is his commitment to showcasing homes he genuinely finds interesting – properties with natural elements, wood features, and distinctive character rather than the ubiquitous white-gray aesthetic dominating recent years. His consistent schedule generates a steady stream of quality content while respecting the collaborative spirit of the East Bay real estate community by always featuring other agents' listings with proper credit.
The results are remarkable: beyond his massive social media following, Roland earns real money directly from TikTok and has built an automated lead generation system that seamlessly funnels potential clients from social media into scheduled consultations. Most importantly, he's created an authentic brand that resonates with clients and colleagues alike – proving that in real estate, "you will get back exactly what you put into it."
Want to revolutionize your own real estate marketing? Follow Roland on Instagram and TikTok to witness firsthand how consistency, authenticity, and a willingness to share the spotlight can create extraordinary results in today's digital landscape.
Follow Roland Osage on TikTok @rolandosage
Follow Roland Osage on Instagram @roland_osage
Roland Osage is a licensed CA REALTOR® DRE# 02055089
Declan Spring is a licensed CA REALTOR® DRE#01398898
This is Declan Spring, and welcome to the Mostly Real Estate Podcast. Well, I had a great conversation with Roland Osage last week and I think you're going to enjoy it. But first, though, I want to raise a glass to Roland and his family. Since Roland and I chatted last week, he and his wife have expanded their family of three to a family of four. Roland's second daughter was born just a few days ago. I couldn't be happier for him and his family. I'm sure the new baby glow, looks good on them all, and I wish them all good health, good sleep and long lives. Roland works hard. He deserves his success in real estate and on social media. I think he gives away a lot of really great information here, so get your pen and paper out and be at the ready. If you want to reach out to Roland, please check the show notes for his contact info, his Instagram and TikTok handles. And now please enjoy my conversation with Roland Osage. Roland Osage, thank you for coming on the Mostly Real Estate podcast.
Roland:Yes, thank you for having me.
Declan:And Osage. I'm saying it correctly, right? Osage? Yeah, because you and I were talking off mic. Yeah, how we both have names, yes, that people read but maybe mispronounce. Then when they, when they meet us and I've been calling you osage and I'm probably you get that a lot- I get osagi, I get you know a lot of people think it's japanese.
Roland:Uh-huh, it is native american is it really?
Declan:I pegged it as French Funny. Yeah, yeah, because Osage just how I was Right, right, yeah, oh, it's Native American it is so Osage Indian.
Roland:A lot of people I've been asked lately because they saw the movie Killers of the Flower Moon yes, with Leonardo DiCaprio, which is based off of our tribe.
Declan:Really, yeah, our tribe, so really I haven't seen the movie and. I'm not born and raised here at all. So I you know, I do my best with American history, probably better than most. Yeah, probably better than me. To be honest, tell me about the Osage Indian, tell me about this tribe.
Roland:So um, the tribe originally from Oklahoma. Um, I've never been to Oklahoma myself, which is kind of crazy. The tribe originally from Oklahoma. I've never been to Oklahoma myself, which is kind of crazy. Okay, but they at least the story that I got from you know different, various family members. Is that likely? We were a Cherokee but were adopted as Osage on the Trail of Tears, because that happened quite a bit. Wow, but I myself I do a lot of, you know, just reading and like knowledge and gathering knowledge on the Osage Indians, their tribe and how they like did things and stuff like that. So I'm really, you know, really into it. Um, but I still, like I mean, I look at so many people that do so much for the tribes here and, um, I don't do nearly enough you know, so it's.
Roland:It's one of those things where I just always think it's cool and important to learn about your own specific stuff, right, but I always feel like I could be doing more.
Declan:Well, how old are you? If you don't mind.
Roland:Yeah, yeah, I'm 32. Okay, you've got a lot of time I do, you've got a lot of time. Yes.
Declan:At 32. And I want to also say congratulations, thank you. I understand you're having your second within a few weeks.
Roland:Oh, my gosh, okay so you're going to be a next step, not that you're not a busy guy, but you're going to be a much, much busier guy. Because we don't really get paternal leave in this job. We do not. And my first one it was like I took an appointment the next day. It was quick, it was a one off appointment, yeah. So that's kind of the luxury too, right. It's like if it's something a little more pressing we can do it and we'll be back an hour later, you know. Right but yeah, we.
Roland:You know, I have my mom I work with now, which is really cool, so she's helped out a lot. We have a full-time assistant that we brought on this is our third month with her, okay and we have a client care team, so I we actually did all this stuff to prepare for this moment.
Declan:Okay, yeah, wow, yeah, wow, yeah, wow. Well, let's get into it, dan. One of my favorite games is guess the year you got licensed.
Roland:So just tell me the first three of your license 020. Okay, which is a little bit of a tough one.
Declan:It is a tough one.
Roland:Yeah.
Declan:I'm going to say 020. Gosh, I'm just going to say 2019. 2018. Oh, okay, I was close enough. Yeah, yeah, okay. So you got licensed 2018, are you? Are you from a real estate family? Now, I'm not. No, okay, and I love this declan.
Roland:Okay, because I've been licensed seven years. My mom got licensed after me. Yes, who's been licensed three years?
Declan:yeah, see, that threw me off. That's why I asked that question, yeah okay, that is so interesting it is are you? Are you? I want to set up for the audience how I met you for the first time. It was a little bit embarrassing actually. So you're a guy who's got a really big following on instagram and you're very well known, very liked and respected in the you know, east bay real estate community for the videos I appreciate that yeah, because you, you, you do something that we, I think, do beautifully well in the East Bay.
Declan:You collaborate and you work with all your colleagues. It doesn't matter the brokerage, because we're here trying to buy and sell property and work on behalf of clients. So you're a beautiful example of that and I was aware of of your videos, right? I? I had seen yeah but I hadn't put the name together with the, so I was over my listing.
Declan:Uh, on terrace I think it was on terrace earlier this year and you showed up with your gear. Yeah, mind, if I do a video, I don't know. I was probably wrapping up after three days of, you know, you know, painting till midnight. You know, yeah and uh, I was like who, who are you?
Roland:yeah and you told me your name yeah yeah, right, you remember this I do, which was funny because I felt a little bit rude because it was, I went there, I text you the day before because I always ask permission, that's my biggest thing. Yeah, um, but I text you the day before and you're like, yeah, of course, thanks for asking. And then I go there, um, and I go to the lock box and there you know, the super, the super box is still there, the key is still in there, yeah. And then you were in there for quite a long time cause you were doing your avid, okay, avid, avid who knows to this day which one it is.
Roland:But, um, so I thought someone had, like I, you were taking a quite a while in there, yeah, so I thought someone was in there that maybe shouldn't have been in there, or something like that, because it was early it was pretty early in the morning, right, um, so I kind of barged in on you to double check, really, to be like, yeah, hey, is you know, kind of almost who are you? Which it ended up being you, which I knew when I saw you who you were. Yeah, um, but you were probably like, who the hell is this guy barging in on my, on doing my agent?
Declan:visual inspection disclosure I didn't put two and two together and, as far as I know and this might have changed, but you tend not to be in your videos the house is the subject, so you're not putting yourself in front of the camera, so I didn't have your face in my mind.
Roland:Yes, I can kind of slip through the cracks and be unknown sometimes. Yes, yeah.
Declan:So, yeah, and I feel a little bad now because I think I was a little short with you, but then I was like, oh my gosh, this is kind of cool to have Roland here, because this is the thing you're known for, yeah, and so you're very much an agent whose career was born during the pandemic.
Roland:Yes, before it, honestly. So 2018 being licensed. Really, all that didn't start happening until like end of 2019-ish right. It was 2020.
Declan:It was March 17th.
Roland:So, yeah, when some of those people that were buying at the beginning of 2020 and end of 19, kind of some funkiness started going about Such a different time, but, yes, I would say so Really stepping into the career, of course, being brand new in those first two years, yeah, when the pandemic hit, a very weird thing to navigate as a new agent.
Declan:Very, very hard. I mean it's already a tricky enough career to get into in the best of circumstances. But real estate's funny. You just have to engage. Whatever the market's doing, you just engage. And it's tricky. I mean there's no perfect time to get into real estate.
Roland:It's almost like the people that got in right when you know the change of decoupling commissions.
Declan:Yes, exactly.
Roland:A little bit different, but change.
Declan:There's always, you know there's always some change that you have to deal with. But so you're not from a real estate family. So you know, like, as Andrea Gordon always says, scratch a realtor and you'll find something else you know. So what got you into real estate and what were you doing before real estate? How did you move in this direction and think, hey, I think I'll get a license? What gave you that bright idea, such a? Good question.
Roland:So I started because I purchased a home with my brother at a very, very young age, so when I was 19, purchased a home with my brother, and that kind of is really what started it, because a couple of years after this was in 2011 or 12. So, about you know, two, three, four years after we had bought that house, I kind of you know, I think it may have been still over one of those websites and I looked up the price, yeah, versus what we owed, and I was like, oh, wow, wow. You know, we, we didn't do anything. We haven't done anything to this house, yeah, um, except make it livable.
Declan:I'm so envious of people who were smart enough to get involved at a young age, but not but the and then people who got involved during the recession recession, when we were having our half off sale, you know. Yeah, that's amazing.
Roland:So, funny enough, it was my mom's idea, um, which all kind of comes a little bit full circle. But, um, at that time I hated it. You know, I was 19. I had dropped out of college to work full time to be able to pay for the house. Okay, because I told myself which was probably limiting belief I can't go to college and work full time. People do it, people get through their own stuff. But I ended up working full time From there. I got my barber's license, so I was a barber in San Francisco. No way, yes, that's awesome working full time from there. Um got my barber's license, so I was a barber in san francisco. No way, yes, that's awesome.
Roland:Um and perfect for the pandemic yeah, right, um, so did that and was a always a very diligent saver, okay, so I saved and saved and saved um, and there was a family friend ish, not really family friend, family acquaintance, yeah, more, that was a home flipper. Okay, and I saved up money and I said, hey, I want to learn more about what you do. Yeah. So I she a little bit took me under her wing. Okay. And did invested with the flip with her, did a couple flips on my own.
Declan:Really.
Roland:And then from there. The reason why I got my license is because I didn't understand she was such a fast mover. Yeah, and I didn't understand a single thing sometimes of what she was saying, the terminology, so I was like I feel like this is the way I can understand everything quicker. Yeah, and you know, maybe I'll buy my own house if I, if I go to buy, you know, a flip or something like that represent myself.
Roland:OK you know, a flip or something like that, represent myself Okay. So really kind of got the license with no intention at that time, because I feel like during and after the pandemic real estate agents got a little bit more popular, yeah. So I was kind of like, oh, you know, when that happened I was like, oh, I'm a little ahead of the curve, you know, for my age and things like that. Yeah, but so got my license, helped a friend buy, and then I then I, you know, really kind of went from there what brokerage you go with.
Roland:When you first got, it was a very just, mom and pop, small, wouldn't even you wouldn't even know of them. Um, then I went to marker real estate in san francisco, okay, um, and then from there went to exp okay, and now?
Declan:real brokerage okay, yeah, and you're living in the east bay, yes, okay, what do you think now, when you think back on what your agent was doing when she was helping you flip property and all of that stuff? How's it feel now that you understand the mechanics of it all from the agency side?
Roland:It's funny because I always feel this way, and maybe other people do too that sometimes it takes me, I almost feel, longer than it should to grasp things. Okay, but I also think that, like things just happen the way they're supposed to happen, huh, you know, I could say the same thing with marketing. Like, oh yeah, I wish I would have done the marketing I do now Right At the very beginning. But you kind of just go along your own path, how you go along.
Declan:Yeah, that's, interesting you know.
Roland:So I think it's almost. That's another thing. You know, that's probably my own perception of things. Right, that may not really be as accurate, like I'd always want to get things done as fast as I possibly can and, you know, get to a certain level sooner than maybe I'm supposed to, I mean.
Declan:I think you're kind of describing anybody who runs their own business or anybody in this business. You know, it's kind of a you have to be a go-getter and a self-starter and I think the most important thing is that you just get out and do it. Yep, because the folks who get stuck in analysis, paralysis and are constantly getting ready for the big you know the big day that they launch something, it just never happens. Yeah.
Declan:So, yeah, you know, you look back on your first effort, second effort, third effort and you're like, oh man, yeah, but you got the job done. Yes, you know, you absolutely got the job done. So describe for me though okay, so your first true year in real estate is 2019.
Roland:Yeah, right, so how was that for you?
Roland:Because I want to lead up to the pandemic, because you're somebody who's whose whole career, after just one year of doing it, capsized with the pandemic. I want to kind of feel that experience. Yeah, so with Marker, who is really who I started with, you know, in the very beginning, really first year, I had no idea what the hell I was doing. Really, first year I had no idea what the hell I was doing. Okay, you know, I was with a broker who really didn't provide training. It was kind of just like, okay, hang your license and you kind of just do your own thing. So I was watching YouTube videos and just being a self starter Right and just not getting anywhere.
Declan:Okay, so yeah, because I mean it is. It is this difficult thing. You can take all the classes you want, right, but at the end of the day, it's lead generation. You got to get some leads.
Roland:Which I do think is the hardest part of our industry.
Declan:And it's our business. It's not our job, but it's our business, right? And so, yeah, I mean I remember because I got licensed in 2004. I really only got active in real estate maybe in 2007. But there was a pie chart and it, you know, it showed like door knocking, call, calls, da, da, da. We didn't have social, but it was like choose a slice of this pie, focus on one thing.
Roland:Pick your poison.
Declan:Yeah, there was one little sliver that said referrals and I thought that sounds good. What's that you know and I did a Brian Buffini coaching thing. And I was like okay, I'm going to do the referrals kind of thing. But yeah, you kind of have to choose your thing. So you're there in 2019. You're beginning to realize. You know most people go for open houses. Yes, where else are? You going?
Roland:to gonna, yeah, did they serve you well? No, because this broker he really didn't even do that much business, so just a bad choice first off. But it was the same thing, right, like I didn't have the mindset, oh, I'm gonna be an agent. I really just had the mindset of like I gotta hang my license with somebody. Yes, and I'm really focusing more on the investment side of things, okay.
Roland:So when I went over to marker, it was a real brokerage, um, you know, like an actual brokerage that's ran and they had a really heavy emphasis on online lead generation. I see, so you read your realtorcom, you know your zillow, your facebook leads, okay, at that time, before even the whole facebook leads thing changed, yes, um, and that dynamic. So that's where I got used to more like scripts and follow-up. Yeah, and, um, you know, converting people to get to an appointment, to show them a house or go to a listing appointment. So that's when the wheels started kind of shifting for me and being like, oh, okay, like sales, this is sales of how it's supposed to be done. So that's where I kind of started tapering down of my days as a barber, so kind of doing a little mixture of both.
Declan:Did you throw in a little barbering pun there by any chance?
Roland:Oh, tapering, that was. That was totally not even a purposeful, that was a great catch, um, but yeah, so then, and then, once you know, eventually just went full-time into real estate, probably in 2020, I would say, oh my gosh, yeah.
Declan:Like before or after lockdown.
Roland:Uh, before it was March yeah.
Declan:Yeah, Before, Okay Now. So did you have any transactions in 2019?
Roland:I'd have to look but I'm sure I did. Maybe four.
Declan:Okay, that's not unusual. That would be a healthy amount for a first?
Roland:Yeah, If even that you know.
Declan:Okay, and I like that. You were at least having a lot of real estate conversations. Yeah, you know that's one of the benefits of going the online route or paying for leads. They call them leads, they're inquiries, I call them inquiries. So it does at least give you the opportunity to engage the public in real estate conversation Gets your feet wet right.
Roland:Absolutely. Kind of gets you out there quicker than you would, just totally on your own, absolutely.
Declan:And then at a certain point I think for most agents it also dawns on you that it's eating up a huge amount of your time and you'd prefer to be getting work by referral or some other way.
Roland:Yeah, or. But that's the thing too. And, like you know, you see these people who are on like these Zillow flex accounts and these things now, and how incredibly small their real take home is, which is it's crazy to think. I mean, at the same time, I know, when I was new I just wanted to learn. So bad you just that's. All you want to do is be like I just want to do right by people. I want to learn and I want to transact, so that way, you know, I can just do a better job and eventually do those things on my own. But that was the thing about that. You know, working with market real estate at that time it was a 50-50 split. So you're spending your gas, you're spending your time, you're spending all these different things and then only getting 50% of that. So that gets old pretty quick once you start doing a better job at that, and then you think I can do this on my own.
Declan:So your number one tip for somebody's first year in real estate sounds to be choose your brokerage wisely, Absolutely, which I didn't.
Roland:I you know. That's like I said. You know you learn these things kind of as you go, but with that was not my, my route. I went, yes, yes.
Declan:No, I understand. So the pandemic comes in. You've got four or five transactions under your belt or whatever, Um, and now you're all in cause. You're, you're fulltime, and then we get the world turns upside down. I mean, no matter if you were 20 years into your career, 30 years into your career, five years. That leveled everything for everybody. In fact, it really changed real estate and we're still dealing with it. Yeah, absolutely. We have this trailing effect. Right now it's still here. We're living with the problems that that caused, especially economically. So what shifted for you? What were your thoughts? I'd love to know. I'd love to know your thoughts.
Roland:Yeah, you know, I found myself incredibly lucky because I same thing, I was such a diligent saver so I'd always had like not only a great cushion but I had, you know, I was doing just a decent amount of sales to where I would be okay Okay. So you know, I think everybody was in such different situations, different living situations, different whatever financial situations, yes, but you know I didn't have a bad pandemic, okay Whatsoever, so that's where it was just different.
Declan:Yeah, blessing yeah.
Roland:That's just great. Had you had you established yourself on Instagram at that point? No, okay, I knew I was going that, that direction, that was a huge focus of mine, so I was doing videos right, but it really truly wasn't until about the last three years that video, you know, social media became truly effective in my business.
Declan:Yeah, I've loved watching, like that pie chart that I described earlier. You know it now includes this slice social media, and it's just a slice. Yeah, it's not for everybody. Yeah, I think there's a lot of pressure on people to feel like they need to incorporate it to a bigger degree than they're comfortable with, and that causes tension. It does, but you know it's just a slice, yep and so, but it's an available slice and for me, I've been watching it, I've watched it go from being, you know, potentially a kind of a slice to actually becoming a legitimate, real slice, a sliver to a slice huh yeah absolutely.
Declan:It's just amazing to see people growing a business from Instagram, because what I've learned doing the podcast with people who are effective on Instagram is and this was an aha moment for me is the difference between growing a following and growing a business on Instagram, and there's a subtle difference between the two. And definitely growing a following doesn't hurt it's part of but actually growing a business out of Instagram, where you're now doing well and there's other social medias- there's TikTok.
Declan:And I don't talk to people a lot about TikTok, so I will have to ask you which you prefer and why. Yeah, but let's just get back to. So you start an Instagram account, presumably.
Roland:I started one in about 2012. So when it was just photos only, and I've kept that same account since. So this is not a business account, Nope, no, this is your Creator account. I think is what it is classified as.
Declan:Okay.
Roland:But kept that same one. And then you know they rolled out video. Yeah, and then, really, when I think Instagram became easier for real estate agents to lead generate is when they started doing reels, which was a piggyback off of TikTok.
Declan:Right, absolutely.
Roland:Right.
Declan:Absolutely. Yeah, a hundred percent. They needed to compete with that monster. Yeah, you know. So you're a visual person. If you were already into, you preferred Instagram, to say Facebook back in 2012.
Roland:Yes, always.
Declan:Okay, yeah, okay. So you like the photos and all that stuff. Yeah, I love the photos. I never really took to reels. Yeah, one of the challenges with, you know, with these social media platforms they might decide.
Roland:You know that this format is who knows where they could go back to photos real quick on Instagram. Who knows, you never know.
Declan:Right, but but you, it seems like you transitioned happily to reels. That wasn't a problem for you, and uh, and so so you're using your account. And so when did you know, when did you notice, like, when did you have like a? Did you have a light bulb moment, or was it much slower than that?
Roland:So I guess I should talk a little bit about as well. In 2020, gosh, was it two, 21, 22,. Around that time, I started a video marketing or digital media company for real estate agents.
Declan:No way.
Roland:Yes, which was called Envision Media. I did that with a couple of business partners. That has since shut down, but it was basically you know, your listing videos, your photography, your drone, your Matterports, all that for real estate agents in the East Bay, oh really, yeah, oh my gosh. So a lot of that kind of. I was really just an owner, operator, kind of investor, in that I didn't like even talking to you about all this stuff so far out of my realm, like I'm not just, like you said, you're not a techie guy. I'm not a techie guy by any means, right? So we had people in place to do those things you know, photograph, edit, all that stuff.
Declan:Wow, that is so fascinating. I had a massive gap in my knowledge there, so thank you for, yeah, a lot of people do, Some people.
Roland:I mean, I was talking to Felicia the other day and she totally, even though we'd helped her with some videos, she totally forgot about it.
Declan:Really yeah.
Roland:She was like oh my gosh, I forgot about that. That's so crazy.
Declan:Whose idea was that? How'd you get involved?
Roland:It was a business partner who I actually worked with in real estate for a little bit. His name was Brooks and you know we partnered up for a little bit there and you know, like it's just, it was a tough business really. Yes, all those, all those people in that realm, it is so tough oh, not only tough to deal with real estate agents, but just a service-based business like that is very hard, unless you are an owner operator, I feel.
Declan:Yeah, I agree with you. I agree, you know these other professionals who work alongside us in real estate, like your stagers, for example. Somebody tells me they're hey, I'm interested in becoming a stager. I'm like good luck, because I don't even understand. I'd rather be a line cook in a restaurant. It sounds easier because that's a freaking hard job as well.
Roland:My stager was at our house for like eight hours the other day. Just crazy yeah.
Declan:Yeah, oh, it's unbelievable. But so you're right, these are difficult businesses.
Roland:So I think that gave me just watching and kind of being in that perspective and that lens running a real estate sales business while doing that. Um, and then really, once I let that go, that's when my business really really took off, okay, yeah.
Declan:And did you, did you learn anything about the art of video and that kind of thing? Were you able to? Because you had professional videographers and photographers is what I'm hearing you say. And so you learned, you picked up. You're like a sponge, you're picking up some of the skills.
Roland:Yeah, and it was right around that time that TikTok and Reels were just taking over those platforms like wildfire, right. So it was one of those things where I was kind of in a creative role of putting myself in that perspective and really seeing what was working and and really like studying, in a sense, what was really working in those times. So that's how social media is it's a constant wave, yeah, and trends will go out and go in. At that time, too, what was really popular was like talking head style okay, so agents kind of being very educational, okay, you know, really high quality videos with like the fancy captions and like educating the consumer. So I did a lot of that for a long time as well, and um was able to keep my costs down of marketing because of that business that I had, um, but it wasn't that effective. Okay, some people, I think, had a lot of success with it, but it's just like Instagram and TikTok and YouTube now. Yeah, a lot of people will do it. Not everybody is going to see those results from it.
Declan:It's like lightning in a bottle sometimes for people. So okay, so describe for me. So you have an Instagram follower because you had your account since 2012. But I don't know what it was hovering. When did you notice Again? So, getting back to that, question.
Roland:So, um about a year and 10 months ago, I started on Tik TOK. Yeah, um, I am a huge Tik TOK fan. Okay, so my following on Tik TOK is far greater than Instagram.
Declan:No way, yeah, I don't have a Tik TOK account.
Roland:It's fine, that's all good. And this is what's funny too is because, um, a lot of agents in our market and agents whose listings I highlight here in the inner East Bay, they, they also don't know. Yeah, they have no idea. Yeah, um, so I have a little over 220,000 followers on TikTok. No way, yeah, and that is my, that is my bread and butter.
Declan:Okay, so how is that your bread and butter?
Roland:Yeah, will be the question.
Declan:Yes, Because I just looked up your numbers on.
Roland:Instagram yeah, of course.
Declan:Which it's massive, yeah, but it's nothing. It's like 10% of that, yes, right, yeah. So this is really interesting. The several agents that you'll be familiar with that I've chatted with, especially over the last few months, who who are doing, you know, being very effective and getting business out of social media. They're, they're all across the board Instagram. They have their Tik TOK account, but Instagram is what they lean into, and so I I don't even know where to begin asking you about Tik TOK.
Declan:Yeah, why do you like? Why do you like? Why do I guess? Why do you prefer TikTok, since so many people listening to this will be will be more into their Instagram? Yeah, tell us why you prefer TikTok.
Roland:Yeah, it's a little more raw, it's more, it's less polished, I would say, than Instagram is. I think you'll find, like higher quality videos on Instagram, a little more thought out produced content, where TikTok is almost a little bit more grab and go-ish style. And that's not to say that you won't see some of that polished kind of content on TikTok too. But also TikTok's algorithm is unlike anything that I've ever seen across social media. So they have what's called a for you page, which Instagram copied with their reels page. Tiktokiktok can be way more educative, um, tiktok can be way more local, so they push local content to, in my opinion, way more than instagram does. Okay, and that for you page, which is the same thing like instagram's reels, is tiktok's for you page. Okay, um, is like the most incredible thing at finding you what it is you're into, really, yes, I may have to rethink my TikTok but, I'll wait until the holidays at the end of the year.
Roland:There you go.
Declan:Because I can't go down that rabbit hole Right.
Roland:I tell people all the time you got to be careful because it is addicting. I've had clients where they're like, hey, we downloaded TikTok because we want to see the video that you did for the listing. And that's always the thing I say is be careful, because it gets addicting.
Declan:Here's one of the questions that often comes up with Instagram. It seems to be very demographic specific. When I talk to, I know you listen to the Ellie Ridge conversation yes absolutely so. She's aware that many of the people following her watching her stuff and the business she's getting is kind of like 30, generally that decade of their lives.
Declan:Yeah 30 somethings and somebody else and I want to reach in. It's not like I've talked to too many people. I think it was Rachel Melvin Yep, I've listened to that as well, and she felt that maybe TikTok had just a broader reach demographically.
Roland:Yes.
Declan:Because we often talk like Facebook is going to be people of a certain age and then Instagram is a generation or two behind that. Yeah, and then she seemed to think everyone's on TikTok.
Roland:Hard to believe, right? Is it true? It is so. I've never had anybody under 30 reach out to me from TikTok, and I've had women well in their late 60s reach out from TikTok.
Declan:Wow, that's a testament to the algorithm there on TikTok and how addicting it is. Yeah.
Roland:And I also just think it depends on the content that you're putting out too. Yes, but 70% of my audience on TikTok is women. Okay, yeah.
Declan:That's amazing, it is. What do you think that's all about? I have no idea.
Roland:Yeah, you know I I'll say, like you know, all I do on TikTok is home tours, that's it.
Declan:And again, it's kind of interesting because you're not in front of the camera. It's not like you're in your speedos checking out pools.
Roland:Yeah, it's not the face. It might be the voice or the way I'm saying, or the way they resonate with me and what I'm saying.
Declan:Yeah, so this is what we need to get into here, because you're doing something, yeah, and have you figured out what it is you're doing? You've tested it often enough. So this gets back to that question when did you?
Roland:realize this was beginning to gather momentum. Yeah, so it was a year and 10 months ago, so it was November of 2023, when I did my first video in this kind of style, which is that walkthrough style of just making the hook. I call it like the front of the home, so just kind of starting with a very attractive home. Yeah, you know, at the time when I started doing that, what was really popular is people would say, like you know their face first. Yes, you know their face first. You know this is what $1 million can get you in Oakland, California, Right?
Roland:So I I just did something different where I just put the house up and I didn't do like some. You know, I'll do some different hooks. I don't put like a ton of thought into my hooks or anything like that. You know, it's like the first thing you say in the video Um, but then it was really just. It was just different, it was slowed down. Okay, it wasn't so. Like you know, instagram reels has to be 30 seconds long, has to be a minute, has to be quick. Yeah, Um, my videos. My average um time on a video on TikTok is about five minutes, so my videos are anywhere from three to 10 minutes long.
Roland:Really yeah, so very just detailed you know, walk through almost like I'm a buyer's there with me in a sense interesting yeah um when you're, when you're doing the uh, the narrative part, are you doing that live?
Roland:no, that's the number one question. I get okay, um, and so it's overdub, it's a voiceover. I'll go and shoot all these properties, then I'll go do back to my office and do a voiceover, okay, there okay so I just watch the video and I'm I'm kind of talking. I have the mls pulled up and I'm just watched the video and I'm I'm kind of talking. I have the MLS pulled up and I'm just talking through it as I'm going.
Declan:I see, yeah, I see, cause you kind of have a script after the fact. Do you do all your editing on the phone?
Roland:I do all on CapCut. I almost I shoot those. For the most part those videos almost in one take when I'm shooting them. Okay. Um, you know, I might get like a phone call in between or mess up, I can't unlock a backdoor or something. I might edit that out, but it's very minimal editing for TikTok and the same thing. It's a very similar style now that I do on Instagram. That is very low editing.
Declan:You use the same video on both platforms, though, right, so I don't Sometimes I'll do two different versions, oh my.
Roland:God. If the home is small enough, like it's about 1,600 square feet or smaller, I can usually do that same one in three minutes, so I can post that same video on TikTok and Instagram. If I'm in a very detailed Victorian home or something like that, or a mid-century modern, that's like 2,000 plus square feet, I want to really take my time with one on TikTok and then do a more sped up, not as informative video three minutes on Instagram.
Declan:Oh, okay, okay, so each platform has its own, has its own, you know, magic formula.
Roland:So Instagram and YouTube shorts their maxes right now are three minutes.
Declan:Oh, okay.
Roland:Right, tiktok is all the way up to 10 minutes. Social media can be such a great tool that can help fuel your business. Yeah, just like it has me, just like it has Ellie, just like it has Rachel, felicia you know, the list could go on. Yeah, my buddy, matt Batulo, there's so many people, yeah, but you also see all of you guys who do so well, yeah, and social media may be a sliver right of what it is you do right, right, um, so it just goes to show that it's like so many people have built great businesses by being totally consistent with open houses, right, or totally consistent with farming, yeah. So there's, there's, it's. Our business is so weird where it's not a one-size-fits-all no, you gotta pick the thing you're good at.
Declan:I mean mean you know. I mean it comes up time and time again in this, in my conversations with realtors that you just have to be yourself. Yep, and you know that you have a wrong or misaligned marketing approach for your personality if it doesn't feel like you're being yourself and I don't use the word authentic, I would just like it just doesn't feel like you.
Roland:The word authentic I would just like. It just doesn't feel like you. It's. It's funny you say that because you know you hear people say that, like at conferences or you know events or whatever. All the time you're like just be yourself and it's like. It can be very cheesy and corny, but it's so true, it's so, it's. It's um, one of those things where I'll get that all the time. When I first talked to a client over the phone or meet them in person, they're like you sound and talk exactly like your videos. Yeah, which is such a. What a funny concept. Right, that you are yourself and your marketing. Yes, and that's why you know, that's why you see eric king doing so well right now exactly he's himself.
Declan:Yes, exactly right ellie is the same thing, and rachel's the same thing, and felicia and everybody you're right, you've nailed it, you've absolutely nailed it, that the person who shows up when you finally, it's exact oh my gosh. You just have to. In the case of Ellie, you just have to adjust your misperception about how tall she is. But you're right, you have to. I remember when I heard that for the first time, be yourself and I I honestly almost had an existential crisis.
Roland:It's hard to grasp isn't it, I was like, who am I Exactly?
Roland:I get it. Um, it was like it was one of those times, too where, like when I start, it was really funny, cause when I started doing these Tik TOK videos, where it truly started, um, I really did them because, you know, like anytime a lot of people resonate with this, relate to this, like when you're posting on social media, you kind of pick it apart. Yeah, you think, oh, what is what is this person going to think? Yeah, or like, what is you know? Oh, I'm kind of afraid for for so and so to see this. You know, you kind of just like always have that like thought in the back of your mind or like, is this going to make me sound stupid? Yeah, or is this or that? I started doing those that style on TikTok, kind of thinking I don't think it, like people won't, probably won't see this on TikTok, okay, and then it just took off like wildfire and it was just me being kind of who I was.
Declan:Oh, it's so great. Yeah, you had the added pressure, of course, of these aren't your listings. That takes a lot of courage to go into somebody else's listing and because now you're representing they've got a client you know and their client's going to be you know put out. If this isn't just right, so it has to be. It has to be educational about the property but also complimentary you know. So it's a careful balancing act that I'm sure you've grappled with.
Roland:A hundred percent. So that's like I said you know. So it's a careful balancing act that I'm sure you've grappled with A hundred percent. So that's like I said, you know, the biggest thing is always asking permission. Yeah, that was one of those things where I did from the very beginning. You know text message hey, am I okay to do, go do a video? Or you know photos on social media Probably about two out of every 10, I'll get a no. Yeah, you know, everybody's different, everybody, and I never fault anybody if they're. If they're a no, just like, hey, that's all good. So I always like to ask client privacy, client situation.
Declan:Yeah, they like to just have only their own marketing, you know, whatever the case is, yeah, yeah, so you're doing this thing and then so, so consistency, I know, is a thing, so you, so you start doing these. When? When do you start to notice? I would imagine the first thing you notice is just your following starts to grow. Yeah, but that's probably the first, the first sign where you get those heart palpitations. Things are starting to go viral a little bit, and and then the, the, it's, it's maintaining that, because that can happen for people, and then it disappears.
Roland:It does. So when I did that first kind of style in that video, I remember it did about like 60,000 views. It's like what happened. Okay.
Roland:And any time. Just from all the information I've absorbed and coaching and different things, it's like when something works, you keep doing it, okay. So when I saw that it did that, I was like, okay, this obviously got a lot of eyeballs, got a lot of great feedback, a lot of comments, a lot of engagement and shares and this and that it got some reach outs from it of people wanting to see the home. Um, yeah. So I was like, okay, more of this. Okay. So I kind of just developed a little system of what I do, which is, you know, that same template of how I asked the agent you know if it's okay to go and do that video on their property and their listing? Yeah, mapping out those homes and tours, kind of what I like to look for, of the homes that I want to pick out Okay, and then going recording them every Tuesday. So I'll do about six to seven tours every.
Roland:Tuesday Okay, and then I go and do my voiceovers just every day after that.
Declan:Okay. So I do want to get into your method. I kind of want to go through that line by line. But in the beginning it sounds like not only did your following take off fairly quickly when for some reason, you just got it right Right and you're following and you said you also were starting to get requests from people saying, hey, you're a realtor, Can we see the house? So your following and your business benefited together. They rose at the same time. But it's amazing, the power of intention, right. So you got this feedback, as you said, and you're like OK, if there's one thing I've been coached on, if it's working, keep it going. And I think we can relate to that in so many different things.
Roland:And you're like, okay, if there's one thing I've been coached on, if it's working, keep it going. And I think we can relate to that in so many different things. If you sent that one mailer out and you're like, oh man, I got four calls from this Right, and there's so many people that will do a viral video or they'll do something different with their listing process or their marketing, to where they got two listings from that one listing versus not really getting anything, and then they'll be like, you know, they just didn't do it again after that, for whatever reason. Yes, so I think like that's all part of business too, is just seeing those signs and knowing when to kind of just take that, that opportunity.
Declan:Yeah, and man, you took it and you ran with it so when did it develop to the point where like're like OK, I need to sit down and I need a method. Yeah, I need a, I need an MO. How do I do this? How did that take shape so that it was part of your part of your work week?
Roland:Yeah, it's funny because I remember when I started doing that and then my buddy, kind of Matt, started he was already doing home tours, but just kind of doing them a little more similarly, yeah, and he was like kind of going over like asking me questions about my process, and I just kind of had it in my head, okay.
Roland:So after that I we kind of made it more of a system. Good, um, because I'll do that, right, if it's like, if I have it down in my own thing, yeah, it's gonna, I'll be good, yeah, but writing it down, and then to share that with other agents and I've had other agents, agents, you know, meet up with me and ask me questions. I'm always like I'm really just one of those believers that like, hey, like, just like agents would let me do videos on their listings. It's, it's all collaborative. We're all here for the same common goal. There's plenty of us, plenty of it for all of us. Nobody's going to take too much away, right, um, but in the beginning there I was a little bit scared of kind of like, oh gosh, like I want to keep this for myself, right, but then you're like you got to give.
Declan:You do, you have to, it comes back.
Roland:Yeah.
Declan:It comes back and you know you're my favorite kind of realtor because you get it. Yeah, you know you get from this business. The most beautiful thing about this business and why it you know, there there have always been women in this business I think is because this business doesn't care who you are, what you look like, yeah. You will get back what you put into it.
Roland:That's so interesting, that's such a great right, great clip.
Declan:Right there, we'll have to clip, well, there you go, but it's true. And so the scarcity mindset is not going to reward you in this business. It really hurts you.
Declan:You got to give. I'm in this BNI chapter and just yesterday somebody in the group was talking about why they like to BNI and she pointed out it was very interesting. She said I've given this much business away by referral in BNI and she gave some amazing number because she's been involved for years and she said you know it's a funny thing but the amount of business I've received in return over the same number of years is almost the same to within $500. She's gotten out of it exactly what she's put in and it was just. There was some poetry in that for me. But you know getting back to you and you know initially, of course, when lightning strikes and you know it's mine.
Roland:Yeah, it's mine, it's my thing, yeah.
Declan:Yeah, no, you give it away. So I really appreciate you talking about how you developed a method here. So let's go to your like. I'm curious about your work week because I don't incorporate time for social media in my work week.
Roland:Yeah, into my work week.
Declan:But actually it's very, very important that people sit down and plan their advertising week and their lead generation, because that's our business, right? So even just saying that it could be some other thing, it doesn't have to be social media, could be cold calling, could be door knocking.
Roland:whatever it is right. It's like we said pick your poison, pick your poison but you've got Tuesdays set aside.
Declan:Yeah, and how many do you do?
Roland:I'll do seven, so I can usually get about home like door to door, 9 am to 1 pm. Wow, on a bad day, whatever it is, I've got different stuff, you've got to move things around or you've got to go do your appointment here, your inspection over here, so sometimes it will be like a 9 to 2. So about four to five hours of my physical time per week. Um, and I do Tuesdays because I avoid the broker tours. Of course it's too hard to get those videos with people all over the place kind of messes up the flow of it. I will say that is one thing I don't like is I ended up missing broker tour quite a bit.
Roland:Um, I do go get to see them and I kind of double up on it too. There's a lot of the homes I'll go tour on my videos that I know I'm going to be previewing for some clients as well. Right, which is really cool. I can even send that to them personally or send them that same video. Yeah, um, sometimes if I know a client has already has a home that they really, really are going to want, I'm going to skip out on that and not do a video on that one.
Declan:Right.
Roland:Fair enough. Right Fair enough, so it just depends. But that's a little bit of the process. And then voiceover. It'll probably take me about 10 or 15 minutes per voiceover.
Declan:And you're just using what A plug-in.
Roland:Yeah, it's an iPhone and a plug-in DJI mic. It's about $100. When I'm doing the tours it's a gimbal about $150. Iphone CapCut Instagram, tiktok, youtube.
Declan:Wow, that's it, and you edit on the phone.
Roland:Edit on the phone, so CapCut is where I edit it. And then a paid version of that. I think it's like $20, $25 a month.
Declan:And so you do your post-production and then later in the day and wrap up your day, yeah, so sometimes.
Roland:what I'll usually do is I'll do about one voiceover per day, Monday through Thursday. Friday I'll do about two, so that way I don't have to do them during the weekend. Yeah. You know just kind of have those preset to post over the weekend and then Groundhog Day all over again.
Declan:Wow. And how often do you drop the reels?
Roland:So Instagram over again, wow and how often do you drop the, the reels? What so? Uh, instagram, I found the sweet spot for me is about one per week, okay, of those home tours, so kind of picking out the best that I think is going to do best. Um, on instagram per week one, one a week yeah that's amazing.
Declan:That's kind of like a relaxed yes a relaxed schedule because, I think a lot of people are trying to post every day. Do you do stories?
Roland:I am the worst at stories Really. Yeah, I see people like Rachel and Felicia and they are so damn good at stories yeah, so damn good. And there's so many other people I'm sure I'm missing, but I just have never gotten in that mode of being really present and kind of tactical, I think, on stories.
Declan:I think stories are for people who are on the other side of the lens yeah. And they don't necessarily work for your shtick, the thing that you do yeah, I don't think you know, because stories really work for like Felicia, because she's like I mean, I feel like I'm going around most of my days with you know, I turn on my phone, open Instagram and Felicia's in her car telling me about something that just happened.
Roland:Or we're looking forward to Surprise. Vegetable Sunday.
Declan:Yeah, right.
Roland:Exactly. You know what I? Mean, or you see that news of them having a child on the way, which is so cool.
Declan:Right.
Roland:I was just laughing at that. You know what I mean, and that's I mean. They are themselves.
Declan:Yeah, they, they truly are, yeah, they truly are. So you, so you're doing, uh, you're, you're putting one reel approximately a week on Instagram, same on Tik TOK a seven a week on Tik TOK. Oh, my gosh Okay.
Roland:That's where the kicker is.
Declan:Oh, that's amazing.
Roland:Now do you?
Declan:think if you put seven a week on Instagram. So I've done more like.
Roland:even when I've done like three a week on Instagram, I've noticed that the views drop a little bit. So lately, when I've been doing one a week on Instagram, I can easily hit like 500 to 800, even like a million on Instagram views. Yeah, but I don't know. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's just because I'm going for that most quality one for the week. Okay, of course I'll do my own listings as well. That's kind of part of the offering that I do. When it comes to sellers is like them seeing my reach and my analytics and things like that. So even if it's not the best home, they will get kind of highlighted on my page too.
Declan:This might answer one of the questions that one of the realtors had and I was out today. I was like I'm talking to Roland Nice and it was. You know, he's gone to a house of mine, but I never saw it pop up and I'm thinking maybe they just did.
Roland:It's on TikTok.
Declan:It's on TikTok.
Roland:Yeah. So another thing that I'm really big on I'll do my hook and usually no more than about 30 seconds in I'm always going to say the address and the listing agent and brokerage, yeah. So, um, yeah. It's always one of those things, too, where it's like there's no, I don't need to make it seem like it's my listing. I make it very, very clear it's not my listing, because collaboration. Oh, give me the props.
Roland:And I also will talk great Like oh my gosh, I always love so-and-so staging. Yes, you know what I mean. They always have the best staging. What a clean product that they brought to market.
Declan:Yeah, it's beautiful that you do all of that. It's just such a feel-good thing. Yeah, and you're getting calls, so you're good. So the next obvious question here for me is well, first of all, how do you select the homes? Yeah, Right. And then if you're doing seven on TikTok in a week, how do you then decide which is the only one that's going to go on Instagram Like these are? These are big questions in my mind.
Roland:I need answers. So the one I'm going it's hard to say, like, why I'm going for the one I'm going for, I will tell you I just love unique homes. Um, so I, when I first started doing this, I just started gravitating towards what I liked the most, kind of going back to that same thing of just like whatever was kind of true to you is is like what I went for. So I really liked, um, as little amount of white as possible, really. So more natural. You know more wood. Um, you know peak and beam ceilings, tongue and groove.
Roland:So, just as much to me. Wood and color, okay, is what I'm going for. Um, it's not to say I won't do homes that are, like you know, all white, but, um, and even some of my own listings, it just that is what you're working with, yeah, um, but that's usually what I'm going to skip over most when I'm picking out the homes I'm going to pick out, and if it's the one I think is going to be the real standout, it's just that it's the most unique, most just kind of like drool worthy home that I think.
Declan:And I I take it that you're selecting them just through. You know your experience online.
Roland:Yes.
Declan:You're not going out like you're seeing 50 and then having to know no no, so I'm just clicking through the MLS so I'm setting my cities.
Roland:You know, doing my filters on the MLS Okay, the most I'm hitting the new right, instead of all active, just the new properties that are going to drop that week, and I do that every Monday, so sometimes I'm a little bit late, sometimes I'm, you know, the first to see it.
Declan:It just depends for me, then that you're probably uniquely positioned to answer. Because if, if you you know, brilliant videographer that you are is bringing all these listings to tiktok and instagram, if you're generally doing your uh vetting, vetting the homes that are most interested you through the mls and online, yeah um, you're in a great position to tell me what makes a listing pop online on the MLS, because if the photography wasn't just right, if some aspect of the marketing, just missed what it is that you might like.
Declan:What are the mistakes that you see people make on the MLS?
Roland:Yes, I mean the biggest one is going to be no staging. You know what's really funny though? I did one off Thornhill, probably about a month ago, maybe a few weeks ago, yeah, and the photos were it was staged but it had been on the market for a while. They de-staged, yeah, I went and did that and I'm like I'm already here, I'm just going to go out and do it. Posted that first for my week to think like this isn't going to do that.
Roland:Well, you know it's not staged went over a million views. So even even you have no idea, sometimes it's the same, like we'll have, I'll have some. I had one where it was my list, my listing, and conquered um, not my, you know, usual unique taste that I would ever pick, but it's my listing, so they're going to get as much eyeballs and promotion as as humanly possible. Right did, 325 000 views, wow. So it's like, sometimes, like sometimes, I'll go for what I love to see and what I'm going to be super passionate about. I think that's another thing that is very easy to get out there, put out there in the universe is if I'm passionate about it and I'm showing true enthusiasm for it, it'll probably do better too.
Declan:Yes, yeah, you bring that energy to it. Yeah, yeah, so, so. But so your, your perception was that, you know, an on a de-staged home wasn't going to do so well and it did great. Yeah, that's kind of a really interesting. Yeah, that's the popular, that's kind of the popular notion. Yes, you know certainly when, when we bring people to a home.
Declan:The staging is very helpful because I think places look smaller when they're when they don't have, when they're absent notion. Yes, you know certainly when. When we bring people to a home, the staging is very helpful because I think places look smaller when they're when they don't have, when they're absent furniture. Yeah, I think it's very difficult to understand. It is if your bed's gonna fit there or not, because things feel smaller yeah, so they'll automatically assume this is too small if they can't picture us.
Roland:Yeah, yeah, so for space yeah, for me that's, that's a huge aspect of the value of staging yeah, you know, I will say mid-century, super popular right now, of course, we're in like a mid-century craze, yeah, um, which I think will phase out eventually. You know, I was kind of ahead of the curve and and knowing when, like, we need to stop putting in gray floors and we need to stop going with all white and white cabinets and white walls and white vanities, right, right, um, white countertops, right. So, um, you know, that's another thing too, where, like, when I started posting these videos and what I liked, it was kind of I was a little bit almost surprised that, like, oh, wow, um, you know, we've been in such a white gray era, um, through 2010 to 2020, ish, whatever, yes, um, you know it was browns early 2000s, browns, yes, white grays a little bit after that, and now we're in this kind of. I think we're really stepping into color and original charm and original aspects yeah, interesting, that's good to know yeah because we're still seeing a lot of white.
Roland:Oh, I see people paint white, or even what the ceilings it's like. Sometimes there's no going back from that no, actually we.
Declan:We had broker tour a really nice listing today, um, if, if you ever get a chance to see it but it just felt like we really needed to go white with that. But we brought in a great stager, sarah alistos, and she brings a lot of character and color with her staging.
Roland:But we needed that to balance things out and I will say I am just as guilty as everybody else of when sometimes you just got to go with the white walls.
Declan:You just need the light. You have to.
Roland:You need the light you have to.
Declan:Yeah.
Roland:And sometimes it's so like. That's why I respect so many people that do so well with colors, like Alyssa and Jess and Lisa at MAJ Realtors yes, I mean, they just do.
Declan:Did you at maj realtors yes, I mean, they just do did you see their house on 35th? That was mid-century. The clients owned all the furniture and staging and all that stuff. I think so was it in richmond.
Roland:It wasn't staging, it was the clients in richmond, right yes, I did see, I toured that one and I knew, I knew that that wasn't a stager, because if that was a stager, I knew I would have seen a card and I would have. I would have, they would have been my new stager, right, but yes, so that things like that was phenomenal, yes, that was phenomenal I wanted to live in that exactly, oh my god, same.
Declan:So then you're reading a lot of marketing texts as well, I'm sure, because you, you want to you know yes you're right, you got to get greater context and in the last, let's say, year or so, how have? How have you seen AI change? How have you seen AI change the marketing text? Do things just smack of chat?
Roland:GPT. You know, I will say in the outer East Bay we'll see more of that. The inner East Bay agents are a world apart.
Declan:Oh, interesting they are incredible. Okay.
Roland:So you can really see the detail in almost everything in the inner East Bay and of course you can relate it to a little bit different price point, right. But they also, they just know, you know, they, we, I, you know what people are looking for, right, and you know what the standard needs to be.
Declan:It is interesting that the inner East Bay and let's just describe that as, let's say, generally Oakland, yep, albany, berkeley, kensington, cerrito bay and let's just describe that as, let's say, generally oakland, yep, um, albany, yeah, kensington, cerrito, kind of that general area. It is interesting how it's it's. It's just different, um, than most other areas. It's a very tiny pocket of, yeah, of the bay area, but it's an interesting group of realtors who work that it is that pocket yeah I. I hate the sophisticated, but I sometimes you. It's the right word.
Roland:I think it's a great word. Sometimes it's the right word.
Declan:I think it gets. I hate when people misuse, but I think there is a level of sophistication.
Roland:Yes.
Declan:Tell me about the kind of because this is a completely alien world to me, right? I've never done Zillow. I've never paid for that that stuff. So I just never have real estate conversations really that are outside of referral. So what is the business like that you get from social media If somebody wants to get into this? They're visual and they want to start making this their slice of the pie. What could they anticipate? What are the kinds? How does it work?
Roland:Yes, so I'll say, like my main lead generation is from TikTok, yeah, in which case I have a link. You know it's called a directme, similar to a link tree in my bio. Yes, so people will click that. And I have two forms I'm interested in buying a home or I'm interested in selling my home. I looked at that. Yes.
Roland:So, um, about 70% of that is I'm interested in buying a home. Probably 80% of that is I'm interested in buying a home. The other 20% people go to selling a home Right, um, a lot of the sellers will be sell buys more commonly than not, but they fill out that information. It's about nine questions. Okay.
Roland:When they fill that out, that information out, I use an app called Zapier which basically can move different things to different platforms, kind of like an interconnector in a sense. Okay, so when people fill that form out, it gets automatically inputted into my CRM.
Declan:Okay.
Roland:And then from there they get an automatic text and email to book a 15 minute intro call with me. Oh, that's beautiful, yeah. So then from there they get an automatic text and email Wow, to book a 15-minute intro call with me. Oh, that's beautiful, yeah. So then, once they book that 15-minute intro call, once I kind of see where they're at in their journey. If they haven't been pre-approved yet, they're going to get sent to a lender and then from there, if they've already been pre-approved, we're going to go directly to a buyer's guide full review. Going to go directly to a buyer's guide full review Wow, or sellers. It's going to be a little bit different process. I'm going to send them, like, a pre-listing presentation, okay. And then, you know, go to an in-person appointment. But if they're not pre-approved, they got to get pre-approved first. Go through that process. After that we will then do a buyer's guide full review.
Declan:And then you get reach outs every week.
Roland:It depends. Sometimes I'll get five a week, sometimes I'll get one a week, sometimes I'll get none a week. Okay, it's kind of funny because I see a little bit of the market pick up with each kind of different week or month. Interesting yeah.
Declan:Well, that begs the question what are you seeing right now?
Roland:I'm seeing the market pick up a little bit. I feel, okay, from quarter two was a strong drop off. So I felt like last year was a very similar scenario. Yeah, really strong. Quarter one, yeah, which has really made me realize, like, for those that need a stronger push, yeah, for a little bit. You know sellers who are maybe a little bit tighter on their margins. Yeah, maybe they bought in 21 or 22 and they're wanting to get as close to that price as possible, which is tough. Yeah, um, push them to quarter one a little bit more. So I think quarter one is going to be very similar to these last two years, this one coming up in 2026. Quarter two we had a big drop off. Quarter three a little bit better, and then your true quarter four kind of dies down.
Roland:Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, no, quarter four is like, but even then, quarter three is still not anywhere near a quarter one.
Declan:Yeah, it's interesting. I felt that this year too.
Roland:I had listings throughout the year and definitely saw that, and you know, midsummer is usually not great in the interest rate, which is so funny because, like you know, that's people's, the consumer's kind of perception on that is like, yeah, summer's busy, right, you know, kids are in school and it's like we haven't been feeling that for a little while. No, we haven't. Yeah, and I think back to your point the pandemic, I think, really changed things.
Declan:Well, no, it's always been like that I mean 10 years ago.
Declan:You know I had moments where you know, in fringe markets like let's say Point Richmond, I would, you know, 2000,. Somewhere between 2000,. Let's say 12 and 18 or something, and if we were bringing on something mid to late July, I would always have an agreement that if we didn't get anything in 14 days, you know any real great we were taking it off until September. Interesting, Because you know it's been like that in the East Bay for a long time, in the inner East Bay I think nationally it does heat up in other markets in the summer, and so we're like so many things in the East Bay here.
Declan:We just run counter to a lot of how real estate is practiced or the seasonality of markets. You know in other parts of the country. You know we're totally out of whack with a lot of the country even right now.
Roland:We have our own rhythm here, even when it came to the decoupling commissions. Yeah, such a crazy different market. I think in the Midwest or in the Southeast or the South, maybe it could be more normal for a buyer to pay their buyer's agent's commission on a $200,000, $300,000 home, right, but I mean, out here it's tough. It's tough for buyers. I lost my last two offers by a landslide, really, you know.
Declan:So yeah, yeah it is very, very tough. It is very tough and I think we're more needed now than we were before the pandemic. Absolutely Because the paperwork's gotten so much trickier and everything, everything's gotten so much trickier and everything, everything's under so much more scrutiny every year that goes by, but I'm with you and I think that I actually think the first quarter next year is going to be even better than we're thinking.
Declan:I'm just looking at like there's telltale signs. I mean not even telltale, but it's in our face that San Francisco's, you know, coming back to life. You know people are. You know commercial downtown is is really starting to. You know leases are getting gobbled up. Yeah, rents are going up by you know double digit numbers. In San Francisco, and that's you know, there's a ripple across to the East Bay always, yes, you know, just like there's a ripple from Berkeley out to Pinole or wherever. Yeah, you got to know your primary and secondary markets Absolutely.
Declan:And you better understand the Bay Area. Yeah, you know all of that kind of thing. So, getting back to you and your videos, so I love your system, by the way.
Roland:Thank you.
Declan:Congratulations on building, you know, recognizing that you had a good thing going. Yeah. And then building the back end so that people have a link tree or direct me and they go there and there's a process. Yeah. And that makes your life easier, definitely, and it's beautifully done. And then your colleagues in the industry are, you know, delighted, I'm sure. Yeah. I'm sure you get. It's very rare that you'd get somebody complaining about a video.
Roland:No, I think if I did something disrespectful. You know, we see so much stuff on the internet right, and there's some people or in like different markets that would just be like, you know, cussing in front of a listing or something like that, and I think that especially out here would not fly right. Um, you know stuff, I see that stuff in like florida or like wherever right?
Declan:is it tampa brie? Is that her name?
Roland:yes, yes, that's mine, I love watching her stuff I know, but I think to myself in this market, oh my god, an agent would be livid I just wonder is she getting the green light from people?
Roland:this is really laws are so different, right? Yeah, I think, like, when it comes to our areas, I honestly don't even know. I'm sure I you have to ask permission or like. I think the permission is really like maybe a seller needs to sign off or it has to be on the listing agreement or something, but I always just did it out of risk. Just I just thought it was a respectful thing to do, because you never know what someone's situation is. You know, or like you know, even usually we don't do owner occupied homes but if someone has something valuable in that home, you just never, you just never know. Yeah, you know what I mean what, what, what that is. So, yeah, um, you never want to get an agent in trouble right with their client or whatever the case is, you know, yeah, or just say really weird things about a house.
Declan:Who is it that out of?
Roland:uh utah, I think uh caitlin yes, yes, she does like the squatting down, she's different, though, in that her jokes are like it's self-deprecating.
Declan:It's not really about the house, it's not really about the house, so it works yeah, you know the house, so it works. Yeah, you know the houses are beautiful. Yeah.
Declan:She'll, you know, she'll riff on, maybe, the culture in Utah, yeah, but it's not about the house, yeah. So she, she seems to just get that right balance, you know. And then clearly you've got the right balance for our local market. So, let's let's talk about any agent who who might be interested in kind of doing this yeah you know, we want to encourage people to find, find whatever it is works for yes people will want your top tips.
Declan:Just like you told us your choice of brokerage is very important in your first year, yeah, so if you want to lean into social, want to hear just some top tips yeah, I would say, um, I think, just going with what you're you're passionate about, like you know, some people may really love new construction or like really modern updates.
Roland:For me it's it's not as much for me. Of course I can. I can see the beauty in it and like really understand and see what quality work looks like, because I've seen a lot of really crappy work. Yeah, sometimes you'll go into a listing you'll be like, oh my gosh, like this is way different than the photos, which is, you know, buyers will joke like that all the time, like this is not what I was expecting.
Roland:Yeah, um, so I think, just going back to like what you're passionate about, like even just to bring up ellie again she is so passionate about that's been in such a family for so long. Yeah, it's so easy and it shows that she's passionate about it and knowledgeable about it. Yeah, so I think it's just the same thing for me and it's the same thing that anybody else should do. If you're passionate about really being a good educator, then maybe it is just doing educational videos and sometimes it takes a little bit to think on it and think what it is you do want to do, because I'll get all the time. I don't know how you do that. I don't know how you go and shoot seven properties and keep up with work and yes, do all these things. Yes, um, and I always just say it's like, well, it's just, it's a faucet, it's like if I turn that off, yes, I won't have as good of a year. And you schedule it.
Roland:Yeah, I think schedule is the key, exactly, scheduling with consistency and then building the support where you need the support. Like my mom, bring you know us teaming up together has been a huge help. Right, bringing on the assistant and putting the you know standard operating procedures in place for her to do well and take as much off of my and my mom's plate as possible. And then the client care team to make sure that our clients are getting the best that they can do and we're not dropping the ball. Okay, you know where we needed to do, from open to close.
Declan:I don't know much about your client care team. That sounds interesting, tell me about it.
Roland:Yeah, so it's a. It's a company called WGE white glove experience, okay, and they charge per transaction, okay, um, so it averages around around the same price as a as a transaction coordinator kind of profile, um, and they have some great systems in place with great checklists. For the listing side of their service it's a little bit more, for the buyer side it's a little bit less, but really really interesting company that really kind of tailors to your business and the systems you have in place. It takes a few months to get integrated and kind of like on the same page. But it's one of those things where it's like, oh man, we should have been doing this a long time ago.
Declan:But I said so. You're paying for a transaction. That's very interesting. What's the benefit of that for?
Roland:you. For me, it's having so much more information from our clients. Um, you know upfront, before we start shopping, before we're in there, we're in the pre-listing phase for their home okay um, it is really just making sure that our clients have everything that they need at the right time. Okay, those forms being sent out all the way down to our reviews being collected, like, in a timely manner how interesting yeah so definitely, like you know anybody that's, um, that's in that phase, you know, that's just like all of us are.
Roland:I think, always in that phase. You know that's just like all of us are. I think, always in that phase of like things falling through the cracks and oh my God, I'm so bad at this or I'm so bad at that. Yeah, so sometimes we just need to pay for it. What CRM are you using? I use lofty.
Declan:So lofty. So why did you choose lofty?
Roland:Um, it is very affordable within my brokerage is why, and what do you use it for? Um, I use it for the smart plans. So the automatic emails, texts, drip campaigns, automatic web property website builder. So the second that I put a listing on the MLS, it automatically creates a landing page for that listing, which is really cool. So that way if people fill out information, even through that, they can go right there. I have unlimited landing pages I can build. So right now where I'm building my email list through the videos on Instagram, I have a landing page. So the second they fill that out, they're going to get put right into my weekly newsletter segments, pipelines, all that fun stuff.
Declan:So let me ask you if somebody was to you know, I'm going to come up to you right now. I mean, you're an agent and I feel like pretty good about doing social. It sounds like you would steer me towards TikTok over Instagram. Is that true?
Roland:he's. He's contacted me before, but I never see his videos. Yeah, um, I think that's a prime example right there, because when I first started on tiktok, I had searched bay area real estate agent. Yeah, wasn't a single yeah soul on there that had consistency or market share or a strategy yeah, but if you go on instagram, it's the exact opposite. You could see 20. You type in Bay Area Real Estate Agent. You're going to see hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds, right? So I would say maybe your competition quote unquote will be a lot lower there.
Declan:Interesting.
Roland:And I will say too, one thing I do I think is really fun to bring up is Matt and I went and did a talk at the Grub Company. Dj hit us up and was like you know, you guys keep doing our listings. Come tell us what you guys are doing, what's going on here? Yeah, it's such a cool guy. You know, some of the agents were just so thankful they're like we are getting people coming in from the open house to the open house from these videos, which is such a cool win, win Right. You know, like, even if they don't hit us up, if that agent is collecting those people's data to be able to circle back with them or whatever it is, and it works for them too. It's just so cool. Yeah, I think, like you know, yes, I think I'd say TikTok.
Declan:So I guess this brings us to another question that I haven't had. I haven't had many people on the podcast who are doing so well on social media that it's actually another source of income or another. Yes, so obviously your primary intention in life is to be a realtor to help people buy and sell property, but you're probably making some money. At what point do you begin to actually have a revenue stream from social media?
Roland:Yeah, once you hit over 10,000 followers and you do over one minute long videos, you are in what's called the creator rewards program of TikTok. Okay, so I'll make directly from TikTok about $3,000 to $4,000 a month. No way. Yeah, that's so interesting. Yeah, I've had a lot of brands reach out. I've done some things. You know really more through Instagram, yeah, but really from TikTok directly, about three to four thousand a month.
Declan:OK, and it was a scary moment when it was almost snatched from us Right TikTok Very scary. You're one of those people, You're a creator, so you were truly like oh crap, I don't want this to go away.
Roland:Yeah, yeah. It was one of those things when I kept hearing about it and hearing about it. That's why I started like really doing that same style on Instagram Um and of course Instagram does does well too and then putting it on YouTube shorts as well. Okay.
Roland:So it was one of those things where like, well, let me, let me not, let me not just only focus on this, even though this is going incredibly well, let's kind of diversify and let's make sure that these other things going with same thing there, though, like I'll say, tiktok for me does way better than instagram does, um, and then youtube shorts is doing a lot better. Youtube shorts is very funny. Yeah, where we talked about demographics earlier, yeah, my number one like my number one demographic on youtube shorts are people 65 and over and are you getting now?
Roland:I'm sure you are realtors asking you to please go and do video at their all the time all the time and but you generally, it's at your I just have to say it has to fit kind of like my brand. I can't just go do a regular, just a regular listing. It wouldn't make sense, right? So just kind of tell them in the most respectful way I can, well you may just have kickstarted.
Declan:It was already starting to. You know there were rumblings of it, but you might've kickstarted my interest in in, you know in a TikTok account. Yes. Maybe I'll have to resurrect my account, just just so I can enjoy your videos. Yeah, and kind of enjoy, I just love watching.
Roland:You know the algorithms and what I'm going to do, that I think too, that when you start incorporating the video and maybe clipping these, I think you're going to get some really great stuff.
Declan:Well, hopefully this podcast will be on YouTube. It's already on YouTube, but it's just a static. Yeah, yeah, but people listen to it on YouTube.
Roland:I don't you know. Yeah, for me it's Spotify.
Declan:Am I missing it?
Roland:It's been absolutely just brilliant to chat with you. Yeah, no, like I'll say time and time again, I'm just super, really was was delighted when you, when you reached out, because, um, this has been such an informative one for me, especially like, with me working this market, I'm getting to hear from so many different people I mean like megan and and right, andrea and and all these things. I just think you're doing such a cool thing. Yeah, because, um, thank you, you're going to keep continuing to bring people on. Yeah, and you know people are just going to keep getting more and more education.
Declan:Like Andrea Gordon, if you're a newer licensee, that's an intimidating prospect to send her a you know a purchase agreement. Yes. And if you kind of want to get a measure of who she is, you can check out my podcasting. Okay, I kind of feel like I know her. It makes people more relatable. It does Like David Gunderman Okay, I kind of feel like I know her now. It makes people more relatable, it does.
Roland:Like David Gunderman, who you might, I did listen to that one, mark Choi.
Declan:Yeah, yes, and I think that's useful for our. So I appreciate you listening to the podcast and the national podcasts. As fun as they are, I often find they just don't, they're not applicable to how we do business here.
Roland:And I've always really related to that, so it was really cool when you started talking about that and I heard your take on the Daily's podcast, which I listened to and was equally frustrated with, amongst many other people that just don't understand. This is my jam. I really enjoy it.
Declan:The work you're doing is beautiful. Thank you, you're a credit to the best of the East Bay. Thank you, you're a credit to the best of the East Bay. Thank you, you're one of the best out there and your spirit of reciprocity and generosity is something I truly admire and I encourage it, and it's why it's so great to have you on the podcast, because we want to highlight that.
Roland:Yes, thank you. Thank you so much, appreciate it. All right, roland, all right.
Declan:Let's do the credits Okay. Thank you very much to Chuck Lindo for the music for the show and to Lisa Mazur for the graphics. This episode was edited by me. The podcast is brought to you by the Home Factor Realtors at thehomefactorcom. Catch up on the latest news from the East Bay Market in their weekly sub stack, published every Saturday. Go to thehomefactorcom. Catch up on the latest news from the East Bay market in their weekly sub stack, published every Saturday. Go to the homefactorcom to subscribe. And if you'd like to reach out to me with suggestions for the show or that kind of thing, please text me at 415-446-8591. Catch you on the next podcast, everybody.
